In 1 Peter 3:19 By which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Verse 18 must be included to give some understanding. For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to GOD, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the spirit. By this same spirit Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. When anyone dies their human spirit, the breath of life, goes back to GOD. What this means is that ALL people who die go to heaven saint and sinner alike. GOD keeps these spirits in their unconscious state and assigns for each which resurrection they will be in. No human being is in prison in hell. This cannot be referring to demons because Satan and the demons already have much of what is salvation as they are immortal spirit beings, they have “seen” GOD. They are not involved in salvation but the righteous angels do serve as ministering spirits to humans that do have that promise. Hebrews 1:14 Angels, good or evil, are not heirs of salvation. The demonic spirits already know their fate. Matthew 8:28-29 If we realize that Jesus Christ died the exact same death as any human being does then he had no consciousness after death either . He was unconscious for 3 days and 3 nights before the FATHER raised him from the dead, therefore Jesus couldn’t have preached to anyone.
The spirits Jesus preached to are human beings. All humanity is in a spiritual prison and Satan is the warden, their god. All humanity is under an everlasting death sentence because of sin, then Jesus came and publicly preached the gospel to humanity, the good news that through him the FATHER would forgive the truly repentant, give a portion of HIS spirit to the elected saints and by that spirit through Jesus the mediator teach the saints HIS truth.
Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord YAHWEH is upon me because HE has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. HE has sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.
Luke 4:18 HE has sent me to proclaim the gospel to the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to set the oppressed free.
As far as the disobedient of the time of Noah, these people long ago were in the same spiritual prison as people are today. People in Noah’s day didn’t go to hell anymore than people today do. Noah is the one who preached to the people who disobeyed and perished in the flood, 2 Peter 2:5 Peter was bringing out the comparison of Noah flood to the baptism in Christ for the 8 people who survived the flood.
Jesus did not exist in the days of Noah and only came into existence when GOD created him in the womb of Mary. In times past GOD dealt with humanity through prophets and angels but in these last days only by HIS son. Hebrews 1:1-2
Jesus Christ preached to the prisoners held captive by the Devil and for those called and chosen provided freedom from that prison.
Thank you for giving your thoughts on this. One thing that we have discussed previously is that the spirit in Jesus is NOT the same spirit that the rest of humanity has. I think that some realize that, because He has the spirit of His Father, he could not sin. Therefore, I can't say at this moment that I can be sure that His spirit was unconscious for 3 days after His flesh was killed.
ReplyDeleteIf we realize that Jesus Christ died the exact same death as any human being does then he had no consciousness after death either . He was unconscious for 3 days and 3 nights before the FATHER raised him from the dead, therefore Jesus couldn’t have preached to anyone.
However, this is just my confirming that I just don't know. I do see the validity in thinking that everyone in born into the prison of this fallen world.
If the dead have no consciousness who could Jesus preach to ? If demons do not inherit salvation then what would be the sense of preaching to them ? Living human beings are who Jesus preached to, those in prison that needed set free.
Delete1. being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit
Delete2. in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey
3. when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah
The question posed regards the statements listed above.
The spirit of Jesus was "made alive". He went to speak to spirits (who had to also be able to hear) and were in a prison "because they did not obey." when "God’s patience waited in the days of Noah."
This is what we are to believe, correct?
Isaiah 53:12 “he (Jesus) poured out his “soul” unto death. The word soul in this verse Is Strongs article H5315 “nephesh” . When reading the description of nephesh notice the word includes; body, breath, MIND, heart, man, beast, life, person, SOUL, etc. Here Jesus poured out his soul, his mind and body , the complete human being, the dust and breath, body and spirit unto DEATH. The human spirit of Jesus did not at death go back to GOD in a conscious state. Only when Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9 did he arrive in heaven in a conscious state. At his return the saints will also ascend into the air to meet him in their conscious state. If they were dead they were unconscious until resurrected, if alive they have never slept, 1 Corinthians 15:51 , they are changed without having seen death. Your insistence that Jesus was conscious after death is the lie of the immortal soul. He could not die a different type of death than us. Noah is the one in his day that preached righteousness to the disobedient people not Jesus. 2 Peter 2:5 Jesus was made alive by the spirit of his GOD . Hebrews 2:14-15 Isaiah 42:7 For Jesus to pay the penalty for our sins which is everlasting unconscious death, he had to die that death for us but GOD ruled that this penalty would only be for 3 days and 3 nights because it was not possible for death to hold him. Acts 2:24 Romans 6:9 Jesus also provided 2 resurrections in which the fear of everlasting death could be ended.
DeleteIt is a biblical and GODLY fact that the dead are unconscious. Further, your use of the phrase “made alive in the spirit” is incorrect. Did not the FATHERS spirit resurrect the Christ ? Is not the power of GOD HIS Holy Spirit ? Jesus was made alive again from the dead by the spirit of GOD. This is what 1 Peter 3:18 is saying and to view it this way brings into unity all the scriptures concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When you attempt to suggest that Jesus was alive and conscious after he died produces a contradiction in scriptures that Jesus said could not be broken. Your interpretation breaks scripture therefore it cannot be true. Jesus was not glorified until he ascended in a conscious state and was changed into an immoral spirit being. Cling to the spiritual fact that death is death and life is life and life is not death and death is not life. This is foundational truth.
DeleteJesus was a human being, he was just like us in every way physically. Jesus had a human spirit, this is what makes us human. Jesus was a soul just like any other human being. Jesus came in the flesh, he was no different than us in this respect. Hebrews 2:17 “It was necessary that in all things he was created like his brethren.” Even Moses knew this about him. Deuteronomy 18:15 Acts 7:37 What made Jesus different from us is that he was totally In dwelt by the spirit of his GOD. This was necessary for Jesus to be the messiah. The law demanded the death of a righteous man. Jesus was called righteous. Isaiah 53:11 “My righteous servant” 1 Corinthians 15:21 Death came by a man, the first Adam, the resurrection of the dead also came by a man, the second Adam, Jesus Christ. The human spirit of Jesus is what ours will be like when we enter the kingdom, we are being recreated to be in his image and this image isn’t flesh and blood but spirit. Even among the elect there were those like the Apostles and prophets that were give a greater portion of the Holy Spirit to empower them to perform in the office they were given. It is an absolute truth that when any human being dies, including Jesus, they lose consciousness and their human spirit goes back to GOD. Jesus said, “Into your hands I commit my spirit.” Luke 23:46 Acts 2:24 it was impossible for death to hold Jesus so GOD raised him from the dead.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the refresher Lee! Ray
ReplyDeleteTo be truly dead one must not be alive anywhere. If you are conscious in heaven then you are not really dead. If Jesus was conscious in heaven then he was not dead. If Jesus did not really truly die then where is the sacrifice for our sins ? Only the living are conscious. The true definition of what death is must be the death that Jesus died
ReplyDeleteJesus did not have an immortal soul and neither do we. Jesus did not go to heaven in a conscious state until he ascended in the presence of his disciples.
I have read all the comments about whether Jesus was conscious after he died or not. Everything that I have ever read in the Bible defines death as the total absence of life, they are opposites. I see nothing about anyone after death being conscious. I have to go with Lees explanation on this, it’s what makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteI like Tim’s common sense on this
ReplyDeleteWell, preferring explanations without applying valid hermeneutics is normal. That is how I got misled years ago. The first rule of hermeneutics has always been "if a passage is plain and understandable as written, seek no other understanding." 1 Peter 3:18 and 19, as I noted, is plain and understandable to me. There are many things that are not told to man in scripture, but I can't just choose to ignore passages.
ReplyDeleteIf it were so plain and understandable then why are there differences in the comments made here? After Jesus was raised from the dead he said to Mary, “Do not hold on to me for I have not yet ascended to the Father.” John 20:17 If Jesus was conscious when dead he could not have made this statement. Jesus would have consciously been aware and with the Father. Yes, the human spirit of Jesus did go back to God at death just as the spirits of all humans do in an unconscious state. Only the living are conscious so if Jesus was conscious in heaven then he was alive, not dead. This presents a problem with his death being the payment for sins. What you are advocating here is the lie of the immortal soul. The idea violates Gods definition concerning life and death that is very well established in scripture. Should we toss out all these other scriptures to embrace an assumed meaning of one? 1 Corinthians 15:20 “the first fruits of them, THAT HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.” Jesus was raised from the dead after having fallen asleep. Did Jesus preach in the days of Noah when he did not preexist? Or was it Noah, who had a portion of the same spirit that empowered the Christ who preached to the people in prison of his day? 2 Peter 2:5 Did all these people in Noah’s day have an immortal soul? There are some very serious violations of scripture in idea of Jesus surviving death in a conscious state.
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DeleteThis is the purpose of scripture study and a petition to Yahweh for truth. Some have difficulty waiting for the answer from our Father and make assumption to create their own truth. Sadly, this usually accompanied by scripture statements are ignored (resulting in a secreted choice to call the scripture "false.")
We know that Yeshua was born with the fulness of the spirit of His Father. While He was a man in the flesh, His spirit was different from all other men. He had to be in order to be sinless in His life. But, many tend to ignore that difference and assume His spirit remained unconscious and went back to His Father. It is that assumption that creates the various responses.
Isaiah 11:2 states: "The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord." This passage foretells that the coming Anointed One (the Messiah) would be fully endowed with the Spirit of God.
Colossians 2:9 says, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.” This fullness was not something He acquired later but was inherent in His divine nature as the eternal Son of God.
My version of scripture study leads me to look at passages that appear to be difficult differently. While scripture has been modified by translators over the years which cause difficulty in discerning truth, some are unaffected.
Another assumption that causes trouble for students of scripture is that, finding a passage that says "the spirit returns to the Father who gave it" and that means this happened to every dead person since Adam and Eve. But, does it? Shall we claim that this is how Yahweh did everything since those days?
Is it possible that God dealt with the spirits that left the bodies of those who died in Noah's flood in a prison? Is it possible that those disobedient spirits really did end up in Sheol? Might it be that, after those in Sheol received the Gospel message, that God then had the spirits of the dead return to Him instead of Sheol?
I don't know, but neither does anyone else - until we are going to say that 1 Peter 3 contains a lie.
If what you say is true it eliminates the need of a second resurrection where ALL who were disobedient will be raised from the dead as human beings again and have the Holy Spirit and for THE FIRST TIME hear the truth of GOD. Your belief seems to infer that some people experience this opportunity while dead. The scriptures states plainly that the disobedient will hear when ALIVE again in the second resurrection. Your idea violates so many scriptural truths and you seem to lack a lot of knowledge about scripture else you would never have taken your current position. If the bodies of the dead of Noah’s day are dust then where are the eyes to see and the ears to hear of the mouth that speaks ? Without a body the human spirit can do nothing and without the human spirit the body can do nothing. The word disembodied spirit is an oxymoron defying the definition of what a soul is and how both parts, body and spirit, must be joined together to have a living breathing creature. When the body and spirit separate this is death and neither body or spirit can function without the other.
DeleteCertain things are diametrically opposite; love / hate GOD / Satan Infinite / finite Day / night Good / Evil Sweet / bitter LIFE / DEATH Any idea or thought that attempts to make things like this the same defies GODS created order. The knowledge of who GOD is… reveals this truth to us. Omniscient / Ignorance Omnipotent / Impotent omnipresence / Absent Eternal / Temporary You can no more alter the meaning and reality of GOD than you can with those things HE has ordained and established.
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