JESUS DID NOT PRAY TO AVOID THE CROSS

 

ESSAY

Jesus Did Not Pray to Avoid the Cross at Gethsemane by

James Rogers with comments by LeeB

POSTED
March 19, 2024 

Several decades ago, a pastor (and friend) mentioned in passing at one of our regular breakfasts together that he wasn’t satisfied with the usual reading of Jesus’s prayer in Gethsemane, the usual reading being that Jesus asked the Father to avoid the Cross at Gethsemane. We turned to the passage, I told him that I wasn’t sure what else Jesus could be asking in His prayer, and we moved on to chat about other topics.

We never returned to the subject; my pastor, sadly, passed away not too long after our conversation. But his question stayed at the back of my mind over the years. Despite my initial skepticism, gradually over the years I noted a set of texts that seemed to press for a different reading of Jesus’s prayer at Gethsemane. 

I first discuss why I don’t think the Bible teaches that Jesus prayed, or would have prayed, to avoid the Cross. I then consider what Jesus did​ ask of the Father in Gethsemane if He did not in fact ask the Father to avoid the Cross. 

Rather than praying to avoid the Cross at Gethsemane, I suggest Jesus instead asked the Father to end a Satanic attack from Satan to kill him before he could go to the cross.  This was a request that pleased the Father to grant; that is, on this reading the Father said “yes” to Jesus’s prayer at Gethsemane. Further, the faith that Jesus demonstrates in His prayers at Gethsemane provides His people with a consummate example of faith for us to emulate, particularly when we face our own suffering and most particularly when we face our own deaths.  The gospel of John contains no account of this incident but has the prayer of Jesus in John 17 that gives no indication of Jesus wanting to escape crucifixion.

Jesus stated expressly that He would not​ ask the Father to avoid the cross

A few days before the Cross, John quotes Jesus expressly denying that He would ask the Father to avoid the Cross. “Now My Soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour” (John 12:27). As at Gethsemane in the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus reports in John that His soul is “troubled”  to the point of death. (cf. Matt 26:38). Despite that, Jesus says He would not ask the Father to “save me from this hour.”

Even closer in time to the Cross, John again has Jesus expressing His willingness to drink the cup that is the Cross: After Peter strikes and wounds the high priest’s slave, Jesus says to Peter, “the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?” (John 18.11)

To be sure, even the casual reader recognizes that John’s Gospel differs in tone and focus from the Synoptic Gospels. Nonetheless, Jesus’s statements in John that He would not ask the Father to avoid the Cross are direct and clear. At the very least they invite the reader to ask whether Jesus’s prayers recorded in the Synoptic Gospels can be read consistently with what John reports.

Jesus responds, “Get thee behind me, Satan,” to Peter’s wish that Jesus avoid the cross

In the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, when Jesus tells His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem to suffer, die, and be resurrected, Peter takes Jesus aside and chastises Him. Peter’s comment recorded in Matthew is even more pointed in the Greek: Peter wishes “mercy” on Jesus (Matt 16.22). In response to this wish of mercy, Jesus gives Peter a bracing rebuke: “Get behind Me, Satan” (Matt 16:23).

Jesus’s response to Peter raises a problem for the traditional reading of Gethsemane; in effect, the traditional reading would place Peter’s words and desire for mercy in Jesus’s mouth at Gethsemane.

The thing is, Jesus does not merely dismiss Peter’s wish as understandable (if misguided) sentimentalism or good intentions. Jesus rejects Peter’s wish as Satanic. Jesus’s bracing rebuke of Peter leaves no room for the type of special pleading that styles Jesus’s prayer in Gethsemane as reflecting an understandably human crisis of faith given the imminency of the Cross. While Jesus was fully human and was “tempted in all things as we are,” yet Jesus lived “without sin” (Heb 4:15). Jesus would not— could not—effectively have prayed the same thing Peter desired for Him and which Jesus flatly dismissed as Satanic.  Would not this instantly disqualify Jesus as Messiah ?

There often is a follow up defense of the traditional view that posits that Jesus did not in fact ask the Father to avoid the Cross in Gethsemane because Jesus gave the Father an out by adding “yet not as I will, but as You will” at the end of His prayer (Matt 26.39, cf., vv. 42, 44). However, this attempt to patch up the traditional view doesn’t work linguistically. If I say to my father, “Please don’t make me do ‘X,’ but if you insist that I do ‘X’ I will submit to you and do ‘X,’” it remains obvious that I am asking him that I be allowed to avoid doing ‘X.’ That I might also tell my father I would submit to his decision if he declines my request does not change the fact that my request is one asking him to allow me to avoid doing ‘X.’ If my father insists that I do ‘X’ it means my father answers “no” to my request. The traditional view requires, at least at the point of Jesus’s request in Gethsemane, that Jesus’s desires for Himself are at odds with those of the Father.  Therefore there must be another request made by Jesus that has been overlooked.

The traditional reading of Jesus’s prayer in Gethsemane has Jesus asking the Father to allow Him to avoid the Cross, with the Father answering “No” to Jesus’s request.

Hebrews 5:7 and Matthew 26:53 suggest the Father answered Jesus’s prayer in the affirmative

In Hebrews 5:7, the author writes regarding Jesus that “In the day of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.” The reference to prayers offered “to the One able to save [Jesus] from death” appears most particularly to be a reference to Jesus at Gethsemane. And, indeed, at Gethsemane the traditional view, Jesus asks the Father “to save Him from death.” Yet the author of Hebrews has the Father saying “yes” to Jesus’s request rather than “no.”  This verse is attributed to Jesus but in reality is a continuation of the thought in verse 6 about Melchizedek. 

As noted above, if saving Jesus from death refers to the Cross, then the traditional reading of Gethsemane has the Father answering “no” to Jesus’s prayer there. On the other hand, if saving Melchizedek from death by the hand of Abraham is the correct idea then the account of Jesus praying with fervent crying and tears never happened which is confirmed by the other gospels accounts. Either way you look at this one answer from GOD is no and another is yes, this is a problem.

So, too in Matthew 26 itself, Jesus suggests that the Father would spare Him from the Cross if Jesus were actually to have asked it. At His arrest, in response to Peter (again) seeking to protect Jesus from the Cross, Jesus says, “[D]o you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?” (v. 53)

The implication here is that if Jesus had in fact asked the Father to avoid the Cross in Gethsemane, the Father would have granted Jesus’s request immediately, sparing Him from the Cross. Jesus and the Father always agreed on Jesus going to the Cross, Jesus never sought to avoid it, and the Father never forced Jesus to the Cross against Jesus’s will.

This also is the upshot of Jesus’s observation in the Gospel of John that His crucifixion results from His own—Jesus’s own—initiative: “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again” (John 10:17–18). At no point does the Father force Jesus to go to the Cross in the face of Jesus’s desire to avoid it. Jesus never shrinks from the cross; He is always willing lay down His life for those He loves, and He does so on His own initiative.

If Jesus prayed to avoid the Cross, then Paul prays a more self-sacrificing prayer than Jesus

Paul writes in his letter to the Romans, “I could wish [“pray” in Greek] that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh” (Rom 9:3). If Jesus asked the Father to avoid the Cross in His prayer at Gethsemane, then it would seem that Paul’s willingness to sacrifice for his lost brethren is greater than Jesus’s willingness to do the same. I suggest that the more likely scenario is that Paul understands his prayer merely to reflect the same love that Christ showed for His people, a love that resulted in Jesus’s willingness to sacrifice for their salvation.

Revisiting Jesus’s Prayer at Gethsemane

Even conceding the extrinsic evidence adduced above, what of the text of Jesus’s actual prayer in Gethsemane? Doesn’t Jesus ask the Father to pass on the Cross? I suggest that Jesus’s prayer at Gethsemane, rather than being a request to avoid the cross entirely, is instead a request that the  Satanic attack against his life end.  Jesus was just fine before entering the garden and at the Passover meal reinforced his will to die. Jesus used the symbols of bread and wine and told Judas to go and do quickly what he had to do.  Satan waited until Jesus entered the garden, a more opportune time. Luke 4:13  When Satan realized that he could not tempt Jesus to worship him he then plotted to kill him prior to the cross.  This was the cup that Jesus wanted removed so that he could fulfill scripture concerning his death.  Jesus left the matter up to GOD who sent an angel to strengthen him.  Luke 22:43   This interpretation of the events in Gethsemane align more with the character of Jesus than the conventional "avoiding the cross" idea.

The second and third prayers that Jesus prayed in Gethsemane seem to indicate this claim explicitly: “He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, ‘My Father, if [or “since”] this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.” Note the language Jesus uses, the cup can pass away, and it did and Jesus went on to his death on the cross.

The language of Jesus’s first prayer is consistent with this reading as well. Jesus asks that the cup “pass from me” (parerchomai apo egō, Matt 26:39). While the phrase can mean “to avoid,” it does not seem as though it has to be taken only in the sense of “to avoid” the cross. It can mean to pass sequentially or temporally after an elapse of time. The time the Satanic attack began until the time GOD sent the angel.

This, then, is the force of Jesus’s statement in His prayers, “Thy will be done.” Jesus is willing to drink the cup, die in the garden, if this was the  Father’s judgment or will. 

A Passing Comment on Matthew 27:46’s “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me”

Jesus’s cry on the Cross, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me” is not directly related to Jesus’s prayer in Gethsemane. Yet the spirit in which Jesus’s statement on the Cross is often preached is of one weave with the traditional reading of Gethsemane that Jesus there asked the Father to forgo the Cross.

The initial problem with this common rendition of Jesus’s cry on the Cross is that Jesus does not ask “why” the Father forsakes Him on the Cross in the sense that he did not know because Jesus had always known.  Numerous earlier texts throughout the Gospels tell us that Jesus knew exactly what would happen on the Cross, and Jesus embraced that purpose as His vocation (Matt 16:21; 22:23; John 3:14; et al.).

In contrast, a well-known alternative reading of Jesus’s statement is that with those words Jesus directs His disciples to Psalm 22. This Psalm, however, is not a psalm of despair and abandonment. It is a psalm of trust and vindication. While David mouths the question, “My God, my God why have You forsaken me,” David immediately answers his own question with the response that God has not in fact abandoned him. As David continues the psalm it crescendos to a conclusion in which God not only vindicates David, the psalm vindicates God’s righteousness and faithfulness as well. Jesus encourages His disciples by directing them to this Psalm on the cross. It is worth quoting at length given that the bulk of the Psalm answers the lament in the first verse:

In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.
To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.
. . .
Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.
…
But You, O Lord, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.
Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.
…
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.
…
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.
They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.

(Psalm 22:4–5, 9–10, 20–21, 24, 27–31, emphasis added).

Gethsemane Exemplifies the Faith of Jesus Christ as He Faces the Cross

Pastors routinely preach that Jesus asking the Father to avoid the Cross in Gethsemane exemplifies Jesus’s humanity. The purpose for doing so is laudable, that is, to underscore the Christian’s identification with Jesus Christ as a person who is fully human.  .

Yet while laudable in intention, the view has Jesus shrinking from the Cross in Gethsemane. While I have no doubt that many of us would indeed shrink from just such a fate that Jesus faced, that would not be a response of faith and trust, either for Jesus or for us.

The alternative reading of Gethsemane presented above instead underscores the faith of Jesus Christ in the face of imminent suffering and death. In going to the Cross Jesus nonetheless trusted that the Father would bring His suffering to an end rather than abandon Him.  (Acts 2:27, 31, 32).

Consistent with this, the apostles repeatedly point to Jesus as an example for Christians to emulate when facing our own suffering and death. Peter, for example, writes “to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing” (1 Peter 4:13) and “since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose” (1 Peter 4:2).

Peter concludes his encouragement for Christians in the face of their own suffering with the comment that “those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right” (1 Peter 4:19).

In the alternative reading of Gethsemane presented above, Jesus exemplifies one who “entrusts” His soul “to a faithful Creator.” Jesus’s prayer for  defense from Satans attack is a prayer of faith and trust. When faced with our own suffering and death, Gethsemane provides Christians with the very model of faith and trust. Gethsemane does not teach that Jesus shrinks from His suffering and death. Rather, Jesus’s prayer at Gethsemane invites us to follow His example of faith and trust. Indeed, Jesus had far more on the line than we do in our own deaths given that He would taste death and judgment for all of us on the Cross. Jesus leads His people at every point.

Our own deaths remind us that our fate is ultimately out of our control; we are entirely in the hands of God. This is not a reason to worry or despair, however, because God can save us while we cannot save ourselves. Confidence that our God is a “faithful Creator” invites us to entrust our souls to God and to face our suffering and death with faith and trust, just as Jesus faced His own suffering and death, even—or especially—at Gethsemane. Jesus at Gethsemane becomes the consummate example of this faith and trust rather than an example of the all-too-human inclination to shrink from suffering and death. This reading of Gethsemane invites us to fix “our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross” (Heb 12:2).

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JOHN 9:4 LET US WORK WHILE IT IS DAY

 

John 9:3,4   The works of GOD might be displayed in us.

Matthew 25:24,25,26,27,28,29,30   We should not bury our talent. 

This study is for us.  It is not for anyone else but GODS elect saints.  “To whom much is given much more will be asked”,  Luke 12:48   Matthew 10:38   Mark 8:34  Luke 9:23  Luke 14:27  These scriptures convey a message.  John 9:4   What should we do ?  2 Timothy 2:2,15,24,25,26   The saints have authority on the Earth now to be used by GOD as a catalyst to stir up the human spirits of people whom HE intends to call and choose to become one of HIS elect saints.  It is no coincidence that the saints are scattered to the four winds to the same locations as the innumerable multitude. As you all know I joined a group called Simply Christian, I did so because I felt I was being led to do it.  Since joining I have had an effect on a few members, a few good and some not.  Not only do these people have the gospel witnessed to them but I also have learned some things in the process of communication with them.  I find the review of things I have been taught very helpful, it keeps me sharp.  If you have noticed that your spiritual memory is developing gaps interaction with people that involves proving the truth will revive you.  

The stirring up of people seems to be the most used method of GOD for choosing HIS elect.  GOD used the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles to do this and today HE uses HIS elect to do the same.   Below is my massage to Outcast and a comment from Outcast who I believe GOD used me as a catalyst to draw Outcast to HIMSELF through Jesus Christ.

LeeB

Well-known member

Yesterday at 7:34 AM

Hello Outcast. I was concerned that your absence from the forum was due to hurricane Helene. I was glad to hear that you were visiting family. I hope you had a good visit. You are one of only a very few on this forum that contributes to spiritual reasoning and understanding. I have been on Simply Christian for almost two years and noticed ,as expected , that the majority have little knowledge about spiritual things. Your arrival was refreshing and I very much enjoy your comments that contain spiritual wisdom. Most members seem to be ex Jehovahs Witnesses and to me bear a grudge and cannot let the past behind to press forward into a new and living way. This forum also highly reveres a man , Anthony Buzzard, who while having a good amount of truth has ideas that are totally false. I know Anthony, he was in the former Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Armstrong as I was. Much of the understanding Anthony has came from the WCG. As you may know I am totally against the idea of the church organization that has evolved from the primitive Catholic Church. I trust no man, only GOD and Christ. I sense that you are the same. Why is it that something that is so precious as salvation is so easily given over to someone else who claims to be a man of GOD ? Why is it that a root of evil is the lifeblood of church organizations ? All these things a much more prove the validity of Revelation 12:9 . I joined Simply Christian only to share what I had been given. I cannot teach, I do not desire to be a leader and I do not want money. I just write and then let it in GODS hands. I am very happy you are back and look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Outcast

Active member

 

 

Today at 5:00 AM

Good morning, Lee. Thank you for the kind words, brother.

This world is getting worse, and keeping my head up despite the condition of our nation gets more tiring as the days go on. Family members are among those who avoid conversations with me regarding scripture. It is disheartening.

Like you, after being duped for so many years and following the crowd, I see how easy it is to just claim the odd-person-out is just deceived. It is the easy-button that people look for - never considering the harm that this willful ignorance causes to their future.

You may not be a teacher, but you are a good reason to reconsider those views I previously held. You cause me to pause and search again the things I thought I already understood. You have been the blessing that I asked Yahweh for.

I pray that God would introduce me to a few others in my area with the desire to understand scripture without the bias of bible commentaries. I miss so much the days that caused me to search deeply for truth in order to share what I found - even though it was that time period that dragged me away from the organized denomination that told me to believe things that they could not prove by scripture.

I recognize the different people who can reach a conclusion that is not accepted by denominations, but even they can't let go of the social environment they are in. I find that they stay where they are and let the false narrative continue without interference. I cannot do that. I guess it is just my nature to speak up with countering passages. People do not want to be challenged like that. Even those who were my "friends" will disassociate with me in order to be accepted by the crowd.

Yahweh knew it would happen. Yeshua told the people it would happen. It is happening to me now. Now, it is high time I simply accept it and keep going. I keep waiting to see what door is going to open so that I can do God's work with the time I have left.

Would you also ask God to give me a local brotherhood who desires scriptural truth regardless of social pressure, please?

 

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LeeB

Well-known member

Today at 7:02 AM

Proverbs 27:17 This online fellowship sharpens us both. Matthew 10:34,35,36 This is why many are called but few are chosen. This is part of our cross to bear. I too am alienated from my family so I love them from a distance. Ezekiel 13:22,23 Our hearts are sad due to all the lies in church organizations that promise life and liberty but are servants of corruption. GOD has already delivered you and I from their hands and at some future time will deliver all each in their own order.
To have fellowship with other people of like mind is a blessing but the most important fellowship is, 1 John 1:17 Here on Simply Christian you and I fellowship and we have shared what YAHWEH has given with each other thus fulfilling 1 John 1:3 I have prayed for you and will always pray for you just as I pray for all the scattered elect. Until YAHWEH sees fit to give you local fellowship you always have YAHWEH, Christ and Lee.

 

 

 

This is an example of what we are to do now.  

No, we are not preaching to the world but to a small group of people we do not know and have never met but all of them , or at least some, a genuinely searching for the truth.  All of them like us were once caught up in a deception.  These people are just as we were when GOD first began working with us.  

There are people on Simply Christian that are nothing more than agents of Satan and an example of this is below.  Notice how Outcast came to my defense.

 

 

William

William Kuevogah

Staff member

Jul 28, 2020

 

Oh, I almost forgot—fideism seems to be the bedrock of the ideas expressed in this post.
Those are two isms you didn't realise you were hiding behind, nay, undergirding, your rhetoric. I'm glad I could help.

 

  

LeeB

Well-known member

• Yesterday at 7:03 PM

•  

Colossians 2:8 1 Timothy 6:20 All spiritual knowledge is from GOD by revelation.

1 Corinthians 2:11 You cannot be of help to anyone. I have a helper you do not acknowledge or know. To quote a very famous person, John 8:55

 

Last edited: Yesterday at 8:45 PM

• 

Reactions: Outcast

 

Outcast

Active member

 

William said:

Don't forget fundamentalism—which you're clearly beholden to, if this post is anything to go by.
Oh, I almost forgot—fideism seems to be the bedrock of the ideas expressed in this post.
Those are two isms you didn't realise you were hiding behind, nay, undergirding, your rhetoric. I'm glad I could help.

I think you have missed a target there, amigo. I see no fideism in LeeB,s statements. Perhaps you are not actually searching the scripture references that he offers?

Apostle Paul has said that people are without excuse because the evidence of God surrounds them.

Romans 1:20 ESV
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

That being the case, searching for reason should be the result of seeing God's handiwork. It should cause people to search. Yes, God gives faith, but it comes with searching - not just getting a "feeling." Brother LeeB uses reasoning to arrive at his beliefs.

Inversely, I find that many use bible commentaries and claim that they "searched" the scriptures for truth. The fact is that it was not the scriptures that they actually reasoned with - it was the opinions of theologians who told them what to think. Many do not follow scripture - they follow man.

This is a foretaste of what we will be doing in the kingdom.  I ask you all to consider joining Simply Christian and continue to be used by GOD and Christ as instruments in their hands to complete the number of 144000 that has not yet been reached.  

We have been blessed beyond measure, given much, now it is time for GOD and Christ to ask something more from us.  To realize that we too have a work to do in helping others that GOD may want to choose.  In my mind I knew going into this group that I would be met with unbelief and that if only one of them was accepting of my words, that GOD opened their mind, the angels in heaven would rejoice.  GOD has a very long history of working through people to accomplish HIS will.  

There is a thing called the book of remembrance in which the names of those who feared GOD and remembered HIS name are written.  Malachi 3:16   I want my name and your names in that book and as many as GOD can use us for to add to it. 

Ask yourselves, what have I done to make myself available to GOD for the furtherance of HIS will ?  We have been given much, now it is time for us to give ourselves to GOD as a tool for the advancement of HIS will.  

Isaiah 6:6-8   We are similar to Isaiah in that we know of some of the things to come and of the message of the gospel.  The remaining yet Unchosen elect need to hear words from us that only GOD can cause them to understand.  This is only a very small thing that GOD asks of us,  1 Peter 3:15 ,  Colossians 4:6 ,  2 Timothy 2:25-26 .  Please do not make a decision now, think and pray about it, and if you would like to join me in the Simply Christian forum let me know.

Psalm 82 and John 10:34

 

 

 

What Does Eloim Mean?

The term "Elohim" means “supreme one” or “mighty one.” It is not only used of the one true God but is also used on occasion to refer to human rulers, judges, and even angels. If you saw one exhibiting supreme rule and expressed mighty power, the word you would use would be Elohim. That does not necessarily mean that you are referring to the one unique God. 

 

 Jesus makes an interesting argument on this point in John 10:34 when he quotes Psalm 82:6. He argues that the Scriptures themselves refer to other gods than God Himself, how then can Jesus be accused of blasphemy because He claims to be God’s Son? 

The Apostle Paul says,  For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),  1 Corinthians 8:5   Notice these gods are in heaven or on Earth.  Micah informs that there will be in the latter days gods who will people who walk "in the name of his god."  These gods will walk in the name of the LORD GOD.  so then you have gods who walk in the name of GOD but people who walk in the name of their god. 

 
   Micah 4:1-5

1Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
2Many nations shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3He shall judge between many peoples,
And rebuke strong nations afar off;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into [a]pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

4But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree,
And no one shall make them afraid;
For the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken.
5For all people walk each in the name of his god,
But we will walk in the name of the Lord our God
Forever and ever.

 

 These verses in Micah explain the verses below.  Jesus is the first god mentioned and the GOD who anoints Jesus is The ALMIGHTY GOD.  The oil of gladness or joy is the Holy Spirit which Jesus receives more of than his companions. 

Hebrews 1:9

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Psalms 45:7

7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

Psalm 82:1-8     The saints, when kings and priests or elohim, gods will judge the evil angels. Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Corinthians 6:3

 1 God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:

2 “How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? (This is what the evil gods do)

3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.

4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’  (Glorified saints made like Jesus)

7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.(We die but are raised in power and glorified and are joint heirs with Christ replacing Satan and his demons to rule the Earth)

 

Christ was concerned with things that had to do with the kingdom of GOD. In  John 10:34  and Psalm 82 this is what Jesus is referring to in these scriptures,  not to the account of Moses and Aaron in Exodus.  The word of GOD is only to the saints and GOD called the saints gods. 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher.  Luke 6:40    

Mat 5:48

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.     This will not happen until we are in the kingdom. 

SPIRITUAL PLAGIARISM

 

Benny Hinn waves his hand at the choir and they all fall over, slain in the spirit.  Everyone marvels at the great man of GOD, Benny Hinn, who uses the great power of GOD to convince his followers that they need to continue following and of course give him money.  Many of the pastors and ministers use tactics like this and claim that they are winning souls for Jesus.  This behavior no doubt provides a tremendous boost to the ego. 

 Joyce Myers presents herself as an instructor to others on Christian living.  Everyday life for Joyce rakes in about $900,000 a year, not bad.  Benny Hinn is estimated to be worth 60 million.  John Hagee is worth about 5 million.  The business of religion seems to pay very well.  

All these false preachers use the words in scripture to earn money and take credit for advancing the Christian church.  The people that support these false preachers are spending their money only to put it into a bag with holes.  They are paying to be lied to.  There may be honest preachers but they all have a similar agenda, money.  

It takes a lot of money to support the organization called the church.  It is ironic that a root of evil is the life blood of organized religion.  The life of the true church is the spirit of GOD.  Money is not needed.  Faith, grace, forgiveness, mercy, hope and salvation are all free.  All the information anyone needs has been recorded for them in the Bible for over 2,000 years.  You do not need or require a pastor or preacher to understand the truth of GOD, it does require the Holy Spirit.  All the saints of the true church have the Holy Spirit and through Jesus access to the FATHER.  I ask you, what more do you need ?

Fake ministers plagiarize GODS word for profit. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing.  They are deceitful workers.  All of organized religion is false.  Even though a few of these organizations do have some truth they also have some lies.  Just the fact that there is a human leader is proof, that they think they must fulfill the great commission, that ministry is required, that they are leaders, that they are teachers, that they keep days and other things unique to each one reveals what they are, synagogues of Satan.  If you are in any of them then you are deceived and blind to it.  The only way out of these Babylonian organizations is for GOD to call you and take you out then put you into HIS true church.

How much do you think the Apostles were worth, what about Jesus or the prophets ?  There is a particular church organization that has elevated a man with the initials AFB who they look upon as a great man of GOD.  AFB does indeed have a lot of truth but mixed in with it lies. GOD sees a mix of truth and lies as all lies.  AFB is an author, a debater, an expert in Greek and Hebrew and claim to nobility but do you know what GOD and Christ think about that, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If Abraham could not boast before GOD neither can AFB.  AFB is a sinner needing grace just like anyone and is responsible for his salvation only as he cannot do anything about the salvation of anyone else.  Since AFB is the leader in his own eyes and his followers are transfixed on his every word all Satan need do is deceive AFB and all those who revere AFB will be deceived as well.  This is the common danger in a one man show church organization were deception is present.  The obvious fact is that all worldly churches are structured in this way.  None of these fakers will ever admit that they are not needed and totally unnecessary because each member has access to GOD through Christ if they have the Holy Spirit.

THE BIG PROBLEM WITH RELIGION

 

The problem of religion in this world, particularly the Christian religion, is that there is no longer anyone alive in the flesh who is recognized as a true man of GOD in the minds of all people .  Since this condition exists people have accepted human leaders that claim to be a true Christian, a man of GOD.  However there seems to be thousands of men and women that make this claim yet none of them are in total agreement about doctrine.  This condition is what I call Babylon.  No it is not the Babylon of Revelation 17:5 but a precursor, a similar thing.  There are many comments made by the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles about what conditions are to be like at the end of this current age.  None of them say anything about a gigantic revival that unites the thousands of churches.  In fact it is just the opposite.  What calls itself Christianity is actually paganism.  I do not care how much actual truth your church has, if they have a human leader then they are not the true church of GOD.  It is no wonder that highly intelligent people are either agnostics or atheists because what they have seen in scripture does not line up with what they see in the churches.  Rather than blame the men responsible they blame GOD or deny HIS existence.   People who are truly practicing their churches beliefs are deceived by a man but do not know this and are committed to this man fully. This man in effect is their GOD. Romans 6:16   Matthew 6:24.   Deceptions and lies in varying degrees are from these self appointed leaders.  Again, if you follow any man you are to some degree deceived.  No lie is of the truth.  It is impossible for GOD to lie.  Satan is the liar and father of lies.  I do not care how many truths your church may have, if you only have one lie the rest of your truths must transform to accommodate that one lie.  A little leaven leavens the whole lump.  It must be the true truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth else it is lies.  To deceive many all Satan needs to do is deceive your human leader and all who follow him will be deceived.  This has been and is the condition of the world’s churches for a very long time.  GOD, in eternity, knew this would happen and through the prophet Ezekiel revealed it to HIS elect saints.  

The actual number of true Christians is extremely few just as Christ and the Apostles told us.  GOD will not at this time bring any person into the church who HE knows would fail by committing the unpardonable sin.  GOD will wait until the millennium or second resurrection to open their minds to know HIM, HIS son and the gospel.

The saints had their names recorded in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world, so yes predestination is true.  Many more names will be added to this book in the millennium and second resurrection.  GOD alone determines who, and when. If someone is not called and chosen in this age they will be in the age to come.  

WE HAVE A-LOT OF ISMS

 

Legalism  Universalism Catholicism Armstrongism Pentecostalism  Trinitarianism  Liberalism Binitarianism   Unitarianism  Jehovahs Witnessesism  Mormonism  All Protestantism 

1/01/24

There are a lot more “isms” that are in the world but all of them have one thing in common, they are all lies.  Isms are carnal Satanically inspired ideas that are used to deceive.  

Another common thing is that all of them were the product of men of carnal minds.  The only "ism" that is true is Yahwehism or Christism.

If Yahweh through Christ did not teach you then you are deceived.  If you read books written by carnal men about their particular "ism" you are not taught by the Holy Spirit, and not even a spiritual babe, you fall for the lies contained in them the “isms”.  Mike Vinson is an excellent example of a carnal minded man, who does preach some truth on his website, also has some of the most blasphemous writings I have ever seen.  If you are a babe in Christ do not read his material as it is very convincing and highly deceptive.

Herbert Armstrong taught a mixture of both covenants but focused mostly on the law and had no idea of what grace is.  His teachings made sense to the carnal mind.  Armstrong was a false Apostle, false Prophet and a deceitful worker.  There must be over 50 splinter groups that have come out from Armstrongism.

The Pope in the Catholic Church is just a man who thinks he is far more than what he is, a demonically influenced man leading the eldest daughter of the harlot of Babylon.  Virtually everything that is taught by this church is false.  It is no wonder that the churches that came out during the reformation contain much of the false Catholic beliefs.  

Protestantism is a religious buffet, a smorgasbord, offering all kinds of false worship.  For carnal people there is probably something that you will like.  

Liberalism is truly an anything goes church.  They will accept people that traditionally are rejected by mainstream.  This church is especially popular with homosexuals and other types of sexual perverts.  This church also disbelieves other doctrines and denies miracles.  Basically you can do anything you want and still “go to heaven”.

Universalism says everybody will receive salvation and the people not saved by Christs sacrifice will be saved by the lake of fire.  They do not not understand the unpardonable sin. They say GOD created all sentient life evil both angels and humans. Then they say that GOD desires to show HIS great power by giving salvation to everyone and some of this belief system even give salvation to Satan and the demons.  They, like all other false churches, do have some truth but like all false churches more lie than truth.  

Yes, everyone has their isms but as for me I have GODISM and Christism only, everything else schism.

GODS TELEPHONE

 

Another analogy.  GOD has a telephone and this phone is at HIS right arm .  When GOD calls some person on this private and unlisted phone most of the time HE gets a busy signal or the one HE calls hangs up on HIM.  On certain extremely rare occasions GODS call is answered by a person that has a true repentant attitude and then that persons name is listed in a spiritual phone book.  These people who have answered the calls now have contact with GOD through HIS telephone or perhaps more accurately telespirit.  Through this one spirit the people listed in the spiritual phone book receive spiritual information called doctrine and have access to all the spiritual blessings GOD alone can give.   The people that were too busy to answer or hung up on GOD in this present age will be called again in the age to come or the age after that.  Anyone that continually hangs up on GOD in any age will have service disconnected forever and their name removed from the spiritual phone book.  No one not listed in the book is able to make a call to GOD, although GOD does know your number, only GOD can initiate a conversation because all people born into this world have not had their bill paid for installation of the private line nor can they pay the bill because GOD will not accept any of their forms of payment.  GOD had to create the telephone network that would make communication with HIM possible and for the people who answer  HIS calls the service is free.   The telephone GOD created would have retroactive effects even covering some who lived before the telephone was created simply because they believed the telephone would be created, seeing things afar off so to speak .  Without GOD having created the spiritual telephone we would all have no hope and be cut off.  Remember all of you whose bill has be paid, you can call up GOD anytime so why don’t you give HIM a call and thank HIM for HIS  spiritual telephone.